Episode 12: Spilling the Tea with Kisira Hill and David Mor.
Nerding out about all things Hospitality.
Good morning / afternoon / evening / whenever you’re reading this,
Sooooo I told you I was skipping a week, then I didn’t! And then I DID skip a week and didn’t tell you! Hey, I’m inconsistent!
It’s been a week. Rest in power Ma’Khia Bryant, Daunte Wright, and Adam Toledo.
Well, why the delay? The truth is on top of the awful news cycle, I’ve been working 11-13 hours days and kept falling asleep on the couch in the middle of trying to send this (not sexy, I know!!). Anyway. That said….
I am extremely excited for my first official “Thirsty Talks” segment — with friends David Mor and Kisira Hill, who recently founded a platform for hospitality professionals called Readspill. It provides articles, resources, a quarterly publication called Guest Check, as well as a podcast, Anthropological. For context, we recorded the interview last Friday morning on Zoom. The transcript has been edited and paraphrased for brevity and clarity. We reference several things / articles / people that are linked in green if you click on them.
We don’t have time to waste — the tea this week is piping hot.
Thirsty Talk~
Kate: We are live. Thank you both for joining! I wanted to start off with personal introductions. Whoever wants to go first, dive in.
David: I am David Mor, a Chicago-based bartender. I went to university for acting, and decided that hospitality was a better fit for me and paid the bills more quickly. I shifted to serving and bartending, and eventually beverage management. I would say I am a bartender, co-founder of Spill, and owner of a cat, with my partner, Matt.
Kate: [in reference to cat] Hi, Prince!
Kisira: *laughs* I am Kisira Hill. I’m a Chicago-based anthropologist and graphic designer… and talker *laughs again,* hospitality creative, and social media visual asset curator. I went to UC Santa Cruz for anthropology with a focus on biological anthropology. My hospitality stuff is a product of me graduating college, moving to Chicago, needing security, and finding that I love to party, talk to people, eat good food, and help others do the same. Being in hospitality eventually led me to become a hospitality public speaker. From there, I began curating hospitality content, especially with Resistance Served, a cocktail competition in New Orleans with Ashtin Berry. During the pandemic, I did a hard pivot to design graphics full time. I got together with David, and we created Spill. It’s a great opportunity for me to blend hospitality, anthropology, design, and event curation all into one big package.
Kate: Awesome. So, starting in on the questions: where did the idea for Spill come from, and what are some of the takeaways you want others to gain from it?
David: Spill’s genesis came out of a desire to see more interesting writing come out of food media publications. I remember the specific moment I was having a drink with a friend, and we were discussing the exposé of Charles Schuman’s views on “a woman’s place behind the bar,” and all these misogynistic comments he made. We were like, why are all the publications we’re reading so limited to this content? They’re all about this or the best rosé cans on the market. It’s fluff pieces, and it’s the same people talking. And I’m saying this making fun of myself, as a white man, because I am part of a lot of these fluff pieces. But there is definitely room to have more interesting conversations. I thought, “I like to write, and I like to publish my writing… maybe it would be cool to put together a website where to host more voices and feature articles from different perspectives. Maybe people will get into it, maybe not.” But that was the beginning of Spill. We wanted to expose more voices.
Kate: Oh, absolutely. In Napa, I find myself getting tired of talking about like, James Suckling, and all these boring wine reviewers who say the same thing. It’s refreshing to hear from people actively working in the industry, rather than just business owners or critics. Also, David to your point: there is so much power in publishing your voice and putting yourself out there.
Kisira: Yeah. It’s important to consume voices that aren’t ones we’re normally accustomed to hearing. They’re frankly, more interesting. I’m only three years into hospitality and I’m looking around like, this is kind of crusty. Are y’all seeing this?
Kate: Totally. There was this long-standing toxic culture that was in every restaurant, and wasn’t talked about before Covid. Thank goodness we’re finally talking about it.
David: Yes, I actually believe that one of the biggest faults with humanity, is that we don’t have enough intimacy with each other to have the challenging conversations about our individual experiences. I don’t expect people to have empathy for other people or other communities if they’re not able to have intimacy with them. It’s been important for me to be curious and have conversations on our podcast with people from different walks of life, because it [selfishly] allows me and insight to all kinds of experiences.
Kate: What you said about curiosity is crucial, in terms of using curiosity as a way to educate yourself. I was reading, actually on Ashtin’s Instagram stories, about how people are afraid of their own ignorance and of being wrong. And instead, could use it as an opportunity to be curious. If we can flip that dynamic for people, and they can realize, “oh it’s not that scary to not know something, because you can use that as a chance to listen, and then, know more,” that feels revolutionary.
David: It makes me think of the quote, “to be neutral is to be complicit.” Being neutral is such a privilege — like, sure, it’s nice to think that you can be “neutral.” But that actually shows you’re not being immediately impacted. You don’t get the opportunity to be wrong, to learn, to change. Yes, keep reading Food & Wine. I do. But also read about how the California wine industry was founded on slave and migrant labor. Learn more context. It’s not about necessarily having to become an activist, but becoming a better hospitality professional.
Kate: This leads perfectly into my “meat and potatoes” question. During Covid, we saw outings of abusive work environments, shady practices, appropriation, and more. Specifically, in your interview with Ashtin, you discuss a creative reimagining of the industry moving forward. What are some of the most pressing things you see needing to change, and how do you hope to reimagine the future?
Kisira: I have yet to see a huge shift in the industry. We’re stuck at the stage of acknowledgement. I haven’t seen the industry go beyond that into the stage of action. Giving space to micro changes, I know some are happening in terms of tipping structure and labor practices in smaller businesses. But on a macro scale, I want to get past talking about it and get into the high-risk activity of systemic change. And that really takes an involvement for the folks making big bucks from our labor and hustle. I need those folks to get on board.
Kate: Well, until anything concrete actually changes, it’s all just performative.
Kisira: That’s what I’m saying.
David: Matt and I talk about this a lot, that it’s easy for folks to give up and feel helpless if they can’t change the macro. So, what can we do? I am a strong believer that the micro shifts will lead a more macro shift. I try to encourage those in the industry that are at your bar or in your friend group to put things into practice. For example: publicly committing to hiring a diverse range of people in specific percentages, hiring inclusion experts, looking internally at the hiring practices and policies and how they may be discriminatory, allocating funds to mental and physical wellness, de-centering yourself and letting everyone else have their deserved credit. I’m excited to see these needs prioritized.
Kisira: I also need to say, on the topic of systems we need to innovate, that have historically caused harm, or failed to pay people or give credit or paths to upward mobility… the improved systems already exist. People of color, in the industry, have actively put them into practice. Mutual aid collaboratives already exist in marginalized communities, and in communities of color. The whitewashing of the hospitality industry has taken away a lot of those modes of equity, of innovation, and accountability. But they absolutely already exist.
David: This is it, we’re really getting to it. They exist, but it seems like the industry is waiting for like, a white person to say it. It’s disheartening, because black people have been saying it for years. What is it going to take for people to actually listen? Collaboration already exists in the industry: bodegas working with local bars and restaurants within their communities. We don’t need another meeting about how to do it. We’re already doing it.
Kate: It’s infuriating because really, with a lot of this stuff, you can start putting it into practice immediately.
Kisira: It already exists in practice!
Kate: Exactly!
David: We got to it, y’all. We did it.
Kate: We did it. But I don’t want to keep you over our time. Thanks again you two!
What I drank this week
Marcel Lapierre, Gamay, Cote du Py, Beajoulais, France 2019 $40ish
If you know me, you’ve probably heard me wax on about my love for Marcel Lapierre. My favorite Beajoulais producer — one of the OGs of natural French wines; the light chill to my red, the carbonic to my maceration (OK this analogy is kind of trash but I tried). Even though he’s no longer making the wine (RIP), his kids are doing a great job. As Kermit Lynch would say, this wine is “meant to be devoured.” Drink it young and slightly chilled: it’s bright, red, crunchy, and juicy.
Envínate, ‘Lousas’ Red Blend, Riberia Sacra, Spain 2019 $42
I’ve got a thing for island wine. Maybe it’s because an extravagant vacation sounds incredible right about now. This wine is coming from the Canary Islands off the coast of Spain. It’s certainly a luxurious getaway for your tastebuds. Complex and layered, the wine offers plenty of red fruit followed by a savory mix of white pepper, and dried herbs and flowers. It’s stomped by foot in small batches, but comes across pure and clean. While going to Spain would be my first choice, this wine will do as second best….. for now.
What I liked this week
This Instagram full of soothing, sand-raking videos.
The article, “Against Loving Your Job.”
Going to a new restaurant for the first time in a year. Valley Bar + Bottle in Sonoma. It was super cute.
Wildflowers / fresh flowers in my house / flowers in general.
Getting a free donut.
Wearing bike shorts with a blazer.
This small peanut:
This meme:
That’s all I’ve got. Thank you for reading! See you next week!
xoxo,
Kate
I'm late to the party this week, but great work as usual. I'm to the point where I look for this as a weekly source of mental stimulation. Thanks for the great content 😎